Monday, September 15, 2008

Ray's anchor did not hold

Ray Boltz, who has sold over 4.5 million records in the Christian music genre, has announced to the world that he is gay.

One of Boltz's most famous songs is, 'The Anchor Holds". The chorus to this song goes like this:

The anchor holds
Though the ship is battered
The anchor holds
Though the sails are torn
I have fallen on my knees
As I faced the raging seas
The anchor holds
In spite of the storm

Boltz is quoted as saying, “This is what it really comes down to,” he says. “If this is the way God made me, then this is the way I’m going to live. It’s not like God made me this way and he’ll send me to hell if I am who he created me to be … I really feel closer to God because I no longer hate myself.”

Here is a response to that statement from The Desert Pastor over at DefendingContending....

Mr. Boltz, I am afraid that you are VERY WRONG! God did not make you or anyone else to live a perverted lifestyle that demeans His creation of man, and the institution of marriage which God ordained to be between 1 man and one woman. And, yes, if there is NO REPENTANCE, God will send you and many others to hell - but the reason will be because you reject the truth of Scripture and remain in unbelief.

One last note, what Scripture verse tells us that we draw closer or feel closer to God because we don’t hate ourselves anymore. What a load of new-age nonsense! The ONLY way we will ever draw close to God is by cleansing our hands, we who are sinners. Cleansing our hands does not take place when we choose to live in habitual sin which is condemned by God.

Boltz has put his trust into an anchor that will perish in the sin of salty water. His anchor failed because he put his trust into a man centered gospel that cannot hold firm to the Truth.

We will be praying that Boltz will repent of his sins and put his trust into Christ who can save him from this sin he seems to be quite comfortable in now; now that he feels God 'made' him gay.

31 comments:

Doorman-Priest said...

Well good for Mr. Boltz for being honest and cutting through the crap of religious hypocricy on the topic.

Straight or Gay: made in the image of God.

I hope he has a happier life than I suspect he has had so far even though there are many who will rush to condemn him for being what God made him.

Craig said...

Ironic... I just made the same post. Very disappointing.

Joseph A. said...

God did not make him that way. Any sin man is capable of or born with came by the curse of Adam's voluntary sin.

I have to fight many sinful temptations being a youth in these sinful modern times... by Boltz's logic I should embrace that sin and any other sin within me that I cannot seem to cast out. Yes, he may have to have fought homosexuality his whole life, as any Christian has to combat any sin he gravitates toward, but that would be a worthy struggle.

No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.
-1 Corinthians 10:13


I am not condemning the man. But sin is sin and calling it such is not inappropriate.

steve martin said...

We are all sinners and live in sin. Sin is not something we step into and out of. It is our condition.

We need the law to condemn us for our sin. From those that live selfishly, ignoring the homeless and ignoring their enemies, and accumulating money and possesions unto themselves...to those who are engaged in adulerous or homosexual activities.

We are all in the same boat.

We proclaim God's law and His gospel. The Lord will handle the rest. Those that judge another man's salvation will be held to the same exacting standard. Jesus told us not to judge, lest we be judged.

I'd be awfully careful about heaping condemnation upon myself by presuming to know anyone's final destination.

I know that there is a hell... but I pray that it will be as empty as God sees fit...for I too deserve to go there.

Doorman-Priest said...

Joseph: you don't choose your sexuality. We are confusing "being" with "doing".

Steve is right: sin is sin. What we need to be doing is condemning sexual promiscuity per se. Straight promiscuity/gay promiscuity: its all the same to God so let's lose the double standard over homosexuality. My sexuality is as fallen as the next man's and it doesn't matter if the next man is straight or gay.

It's man, not God, who has the bigger problem with homosexuality.

WayneDawg said...

DP - By that logic child molesters can say that God made them that way, so, it’s ok, ‘God loves me the way I am’. The child molester can say that he is now at peace with God because he, the child molester, has acknowledged who he is now.

If you apply this rule to homosexuals, you must apply it to ALL sexual deviant behavior.

WayneDawg said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Doorman-Priest said...

That assumes that you believe all expressions of sexuality to be devient.

Doorman-Priest said...

It also assumes that you continue to exuate being with doing.

Doorman-Priest said...

That was equate.

WayneDawg said...

No....married man and woman.

Anything other than that would be devient sexual behavior.

Doorman-Priest said...

Wayne, promise me one thing: please don't ever give up your current job and move into sexual health counselling.

So, solo masturbation is out then, is it?

Now the comparison between homosexuals and peadophiles is terribly offensive to gays and is an all too often made slur. They are not the same. Homosexual behaviour involves consent. Paedophiles can not gain consent because their victims can not give it: their behaviour is about the abuse of power and exploitation, therefore they may well claim that their behaviour is O.K. but it's a specious argument.

As to whether it is how God made them I suppose it is back to the nature/nurture thing, but either way, as with all sexuality, it is not about choice. Do you choose to be straight? Did you make a conscious decision to follow the heterosexual route or was it a natural progression that just happened? Could you go against that nature and behave contrary to it?

Now ask a gay man or woman the same sort of questions and you'll get much the same answers.

You don't deal with my concerns about a double standard. Promiscuity is promiscuity and as far as God is concerned sin is sin: He doesn't do categories.

If I as a married man sleep with another man is that worse than my sleeping with another woman?

If I were single would it make a difference?

You don't have to answer this question, but were you a virgin at marriage? I wasn't by any means. O.K. so what? What does that mean in terms of my relationship with God? And who is to judge? You, me or God?

Why do we reserve our worst vitriol for gays and lesbians? Why do we not redress the inequality of thought process by condemning straight promiscuity in the same breath?

Why is Mr. Boltz being slagged off so roundly for being gay when I bet he wouldn't have got the same criticism for sleeping with another woman. He and his wife are divorced and a quick web search reveals no suggestion that he cheated on her but lots of rather nasty innuendo - from supposed Christians and some of it is really nasty, shaming, demeaning stuff.

He is still a Christian in the end and as he hasn't sinned against either one of us it is not for either of us to judge or forgive him.

Sexuality is not determinative of salvation.

Right, that's me done. Off to bed. Speak to you soon, no doubt.

WayneDawg said...

There is no need for masturbation inside a healthy marriage between a man and woman.

*Promiscuity is promiscuity and as far as God is concerned sin is sin: He doesn't do categories.*

Agreed! It is a sin to have sex outside a marriage between a man and a woman.

I don't need to quit my day job...I have the Scriptures to tell me right from wrong when dealing with this.

*You don't have to answer this question, but were you a virgin at marriage?*

I wasn't a Christian when I got married. If I had been, I would have been remained a virgin until I met a Christian woman with the same biblical standards.

*Why is Mr. Boltz being slagged off so roundly for being gay when I bet he wouldn't have got the same criticism for sleeping with another woman.*

Oh yes he would have! At least from me he would have!!

*Sexuality is not determinative of salvation.*

Agreed! - But sin is.

Whether it be homosexuality (same as adultery), stealing, blaspheming the Lord's name, murdering, Making a graven image, having other gods before God, not keeping the Sabbath, honoring your father and mother, lying or coveting, all are sins punishable by death.

All sins are forgiven if there is repentance and trust in Christ.

We all sin..even Christians. But the difference is when a Christian stumbles into a sin he is pounded by the Holy Spirit to get right with God..there is a hating of sin.

When a homosexual or, an adulterer, (or whatever the sin is) sins, and they wallow in that sin by calling it 'good' or 'God made me this way' so they can live that lifestyle and not have to war against that fleshy desire anymore.

It's a war with the flesh Jack, you know that. I fight sexual teptations all the time. Everywhere I look I see something that wars with my godly nature.

But I fight it...I war with it. I take it to God and claim what Joseph quoted above in 1 Cor. 10:13....This is why I put on my spiritual armor everyday..so I can battle the world and it's fleshy desires.

We are never going to agree on this Jack...

As far as Mr. Boltz and whether or not he's a Christian...I can't say that he is...I don't know how you can.

I will be praying that he repents and trusts in Christ to save and change him...as only God can do.

Doorman-Priest said...

I can't say that he is because I don't know him from Adam but he says that he is and has a lifetime of Christian service and committment behind him. So he's a sinner: aren't we all? Therefore does the fact that he is has come out as gay materially change anything about his walk with God?

In the end God will be his judge as he will be yours and mine and let's remember what that judgement is based on: our redemption and discipleship of Christ, not our sexuality.

the Reverend boy said...

I speak as a man who loves Jesus as his Lord, Saviour and friend, and wants nothing more than follow where God leads me ... a sinner, saved by the grace of God ... ....and who happens to be gay.

Being a homosexual is not something you "do." It is something you "are." I do not have the ability to fall in love with a woman or find her attractive in the same way as heterosexuals. For whatever reason, I have the ability to fall in love with other men and are attracted to them.

I do not engage in sexual licentiousness.

Let us assume that the "cause" of homosexuality is the Fall (which I don't believe, but let's assume that for the sake of argument), something which affects every human being and subjects us to the Law and puts us in need of a Saviour (which I do believe).

The Bible says in the first chapters of Genesis, "It is not good for man to be alone." Very few people have the gift of celibacy. Is it not better to encourage loving, Christ-centered relationships between two people of the same gender than to force them to submit to either a life of celibacy or to marry someone they may love, but not be in love with? Forget the homosexual living in a heterosexual marriage, but think of the husband or wife, and the children involved ...

Imposing a life of deception on someone is a far greater sin (and selfish to boot!) than any sin that may be done between those two faithful men and women.

The Bible also says, "Anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." Period. End of story.

Ray Boltz has a lot of wounds that need healing, yes. It is the wounds of someone who for so long hates a part of himself, who has lied to his family, and the perpetuation of a deception which he kept up for the sake of keeping up appearances and his career.

It took a lot of courage to do what he did, for his career is now over, and who knows what will become of his relationship with the church he attends ...

Doorman-Priest said...

Thought you might find this interesting: Have a look here

the Reverend boy said...

You also might find this interesting:

www.gaychristian.net

WayneDawg said...

*The Bible also says, "Anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." Period. End of story. *

And when this happens he is a new creature in Christ; the old man (sinful nature)has passed away.

*Being a homosexual is not something you "do." It is something you "are."*

No different than a rapist, child molester, one who keeps on commiting adultery on a spouse, thief, murderer, etc.

They all say the same thing; "it's who I am." It's called sin!!!

All of the above (and all sin) is the result of the fall.

When God said it is not good for man to be alone...HE CREATED A WOMAN to be his mated, not another man....c'mon.

This just goes to show the stretch of the imagination (and butchering of the Scriptures)that homosexuals will go through to justify their own sinful desires.

Doorman-Priest said...

Being a homosexual is not something you "do." It is something you "are."*

No different than a rapist, child molester, one who keeps on commiting adultery on a spouse, thief, murderer, etc.

They all say the same thing; "it's who I am." It's called sin!!!


You are still confusing "being" with "doing" and you didn't answer the specific questions I posed on going against your own sexuality.

Joseph A. said...

Our "being" is a sinful nature. We're not to pursue that sin by "doing" it.

"Therefore does the fact that he is has come out as gay materially change anything about his walk with God?"

It does if he pursues and commits homosexuality, as is true with any sin. I'm certainly not saying we stop sinning but it's a process of sanctification that we oppose all sin in our lives.

I think you can have homosexual desire that is a "being" within you, as you can desire any sin as is our nature. It seems you're justifying being born with sinful nature to commit sin when we should clearly be fighting against it.

the Reverend boy said...

Joseph A says, "It does if he pursues and commits homosexuality, as is true with any sin."

No one "commit" homosexuality any more than they can "commit" heterosexuality.

No one can justify sin ... that's like saying "the devil made me do it." But, I'm sorry, imposing a way of life on people which forces them to be celibate or lie to their loved ones and children ..

Is lying a good thing? or is it sin?

That is not the Good News of Jesus Christ, but the Bad News of the father of lies.

Thank you for allowing my thoughts to be posted here. Feel free to jump over to my place anytime and comment or just lurk around, for all are welcome. I realize we will never agree on this topic, but I would ask for one thing. ...

I would like to know how I am like a rapist, a child molestor, or any of the things you mentioned. I would like to know what I have done to deserve such a label. If I am like a rapist or child molestor or thief or murderer, I certainly have no business trying to go into the ministry.

WayneDawg said...

*I would like to know how I am like a rapist, a child molestor, or any of the things you mentioned. I would like to know what I have done to deserve such a label. If I am like a rapist or child molestor or thief or murderer, I certainly have no business trying to go into the ministry.*

RB -

I am going to be brutally honest with you.

You are like the things you mentioned if you keep on saying that you have no control over your homosexuality; just as I would be like them if I gave into my desires and let them control me.

When sin takes control of or lives and we justify it through the mangling of the Scriptures (or whatever is contrary to God’s Word), we will never have the understanding of why Christ came to die on our behalf.

If you continue to wallow in this sin of homosexuality and not repent and surrender your life fully to Christ, I’m afraid you will be much deceived on Judgment day …….

1 Cor 9:6-11 - Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Please read the above carefully and notice that Paul said, “And such WERE some of you.” Some in this Corinthian church WERE homosexuals until they repented and trusted Christ…….and God was faithful to change them.

God can change you and your desires. If you have to be celibate and live your life continually fighting the temptations of this sin, so be it….It is better to enter into the Kingdom after living a life of celibacy than enter hell after living a life of sin.

Please, please…..repent and trust Christ to save you…I say this with all the love I can.

Doorman-Priest said...

But you continue to miss the point and in so doing you reveal your own human prejudice.

If sin is sin then all have fallen short of God's glory. God doesn't do categories remember. So why do you continue to equate homosexuality with the worst sorts of degraded acts?

If you were honest you would compare fallen sexuality with taking paper clips home from the office without your employer's permission. Sin is sin.

You reveal too much about your own attitudes. We are the ones - particularly men - who have the problem with homosexuality, not God. We categorise, not God. Sin is Sin.

R.B. Stop being who you are and start living a lie: (this will be to please man more than God). Go and join one of those ex-gay groups where you can pretend along with all the others: be gay but act straight for all you are worth. (Look on You-tube for the Will and Grace episode "Focus on the Family": painful and funny). God knew you and formed you in the womb and he continues to hold you in his love. You are a sinner, but then so are we all. Fortunately God knows your heart and he knows you are redeemed.

WayneDawg said...

DP - You miss the biblical point although you state it; sin is sin.

*Fortunately God knows your heart and he knows you are redeemed.*

If ANYONE, regardless of the sin, wallows,loves and continues in his sin, he is lost and knows not God.

Of course God knew you when he formed you in the womb (hmmm a recognition of life in the womb)BUT, you were born with a sin nature. Wallowing and loving ANY sin will keep us from receiving forgiveness of sin and eternal life with God.

WayneDawg said...

DP – Please give me an exegesis of the following verses……..

1 Cor 9:6-11 - Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Doorman-Priest said...

Cultic worship.

Doorman-Priest said...

Of course, we are back inevitably, to the authority of scripture; a principal I espouse but the misuse of what the Bible has to say about homosexuality deserves attention. There are five groups of passages.

* First of all there are the stories of Sodom and Gibeah in Genesis 19:1-25 and Judges 19:13-28. The actions described here so graphically are homosexual and heterosexual rape.

* Secondly, there are the references in Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, regarded as key texts in this matter by conservative evangelicals. These passages relate primarily to idolatry, as 18:21 suggests. The Hebrew here rendered in English as ‘commit an abomination’, an offence which carries the death penalty, is a term often employed in the Old Testament of idolatrous practices.

* Thirdly, there are the accounts in 1 Kings 14:24; 15:12, and 22:46 of male prostitution at idolatrous shrines.

* Fourthly, there are quite explicit references in -Romans 1: 18 - 27 to homosexuality. These verses, too, are central to the conservative evangelical case. The context is pagan idolatry. Paul argues that male and female homosexual orgies are the consequence of idolatry, the nature of which he describes in some detail. Men and women, having known God’s clear revelation, ‘have refused to honour him as God, or to render thanks’. Therefore, Paul says. God has ‘given them up to their own vile desires, and the consequent degradation of their bodies’. To be abandoned to orgiastic homosexual passion is, Paul argues, God’s punishment for rejecting him for man-made idols. We find the same ideas in Wisdom 14 and 15 on which Romans l:18ff is virtually a commentary.

* Finally, there are the lists in two of Paul’s letters of ‘the lawless and disobedient’ who will not possess the Kingdom of God’. They include ‘sexual perverts’ or ‘sodomites’ (depending on the English translation) (1 Cor. 6: 9; 1 Tim. 1:10). Given the many cults in Corinth and other cosmopolitan cities, and as Paul’s lists of virtues and vices are taken almost unmodified from conventional pagan lists, there seems little doubt that these references, too, relate to male prostitution and possibly also to child sexual abuse.

Therefore, strictly in their contexts, these biblical passages refer not to the homosexual condition but to homosexual rape and prostitution and to homosexual activity in the course of idolatrous practices. This is the evidence. This is what the biblical writers unequivocally condemn. To equate these gross immoralities with adult, loving, long-term, committed consensual gay and lesbian relationships is a gross misuse of scripture. To use these passages in a homophobic polemic is disgraceful.

Joseph A. said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkCkXU0e75k


This is Ravi Zacharias talking about homosexuality as was asked about by a student at a university he visited. It's worth watching.

Joseph A. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
the Reverend boy said...

Had to step away from the conversation for a bit...

Wayne, my brother in Christ, I understand where you are coming from but I believe we both feel that the other person is in error. DP's exegesis is actually quite sound. But still, if you don't accept that your orientation is a part of who you are and not what you do, then I fear the conversation can't go too much farther.

But please realize what you are saying ... by equating the fact that I'm gay with rapists, etc., you are saying:

--I have sex with other people against their will and enjoy it
--I use children for my sexual pleasure
--I steal
--I kill people

I don't think you get that. That's really, really hurtful (not to mention insulting!) and is actually very slanderous. At the minimum you are saying I am a criminal and a menace to society by virtue of the fact that I simply exist.

I know you're not going to change your mind, but do realize what you're saying and how serious that accusation is.

The most remarkable thing about this conversation is that when we meet each other in glory we'll wonder what all the fuss was about and why we spent energy on this at all.

God's peace to you all.

David

thedesertpastor said...

RB said, "Imposing a life of deception on someone is a far greater sin (and selfish to boot!) than any sin that may be done between those two faithful men and women."

Interesting, I actually believe the Scriptures make it clear that two wrongs NEVER make a right! As it was God who instituted marriage between 1 man and 1 woman, then the rules that establish human relationships should be based on His Word, not on feelings, emotions, or lusts, or desires.

RB also said, "The Bible also says, "Anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." Period. End of story."

For somebody who is supposedly a minister of the Word of God, I find this statement appalling. That you would use this verse to be able to justify the abomination which you enjoy is a travesty to the grace of God. Romans 6, "shall we sin more that grace may abound more? GOD FORBID!!!!!!!!"

Any person who calls upon the name of the Lord WILL be saved, but it does not end there. 2 Cor. 5:17 says they are a new creation. All the old ways of life (including the enjoyment of sin) is to be going away and all things are becoming new in Christ.

Paul made it very clear that such were some of the Corinthian believers (homosexuals included), but now they are washed, cleansed, justified, and sanctified. If there is still a desire for that which is an abomination in the eyes of God - THERE IS NO LIFE!

The Desert Pastor